Wilz and Iart7....

[samart]

Your skin is up on the PDC website. Great job on that baby!

[e-b-o-]

congratulations guys :)

[Target]

Yah, nice skin!

[=york=]

wtg guys awesome skin..

[Kossu]

Told ya so :D

Cheers,

Kossu

[wilz]

Wow, I feel like a proud new parent.

Iart7 and myself want to express our thanks for putting the skin up on the PDC site. I learned a great deal from attempting a skin and I couldn't have done it without Arthur. I'm still mistified by some of the suggestion from e-b-o since I'm new at this (don't speak the language) and he obviously knows what he is talking about.

Special thanks to Kossu for going to bat for us.

Good or bad, watch out because we're teaming up on another skin that is getting close. It seems that the PDC doesn't have any skins for the F4F's.

[Target]

Yep, blue water ops skins have always gotten short shrift with us for two reasons, none of us know them THAT well, with the possible exception of webs, and frankly... they're a BITCH to skin because of mapping issues. That said, you guys really took what was available and made the best of it. Very impressive.

[kidcan]

off to the PDC I got to check it out:)<S> Wilz In my posting of the Hurricane I am working on check out the link there www.simmerspaintshop.com they have everyhtign you could imagine to assist you:) WTG and hope to see more:)

[iart7]

Yes, the "THANKS to all" goes double for me. It was a pleasure working with WILZ and the help from Kossu, et al is much appreciated. Getting it to PDC has been a MAJOR achievement in my adult life. I feel much honored that it was accepted; I know it is not easy getting in.

The F5F5 is such a well proportioned plane, I've loved it since childhood. I hope you will enjoy flying the Grim Reapers Hellcat (http://www.iart7.com/WARBIRDS/gallery4c.html) as much as I do.

The F4F Wildcat is NOT one of my favorite planes, but after seeing the plane in a nice skin it kinda grows on you. See the WIP at:
http://www.iart7.com/WARBIRDS/gallery6a.html

There's not much there now, but check back once a week and you'll see plenty.

Now, on to the F4F4...

PS: This is the greatest game ever ... where else could ordinary players be able to do what Wilz and I have done? Thank you!

(moment of silence to remember 911)

[eretrc]

:( sry iart and wilz i kinda shot ur skin down :(

i like f4f btw ive bin flying that a bit and would love a skin for it :)

[iart7]

You DO NOT have permission to shoot down the Grim Reaper.

You may fly it, you may park it in the hanger, you may land it on a flattop.

If you really like the F4F and fly it a lot, maybe WILZ will agree to let you be our "test pilot" for the new skin. If he says ok, i'll send you the TGA files and you can put it in your Warbirds <skins> folder. You know how to do it?
put the fuse.tga and wing.tga in here

Warbirds/skins/F4F4/offline/wilzf4f4

art

[eretrc]

wooo cool perhaps u could hire me lol

[iart7]

WILZ,
i have 6 more photos on the Wildcat web page.
i think i'll be finished over the weekend... looking good. if you get a chance, look for the location of the TAIL WHEEL...

i told you i didn't like the f4f. i still don't like it. but SOME of my blood cells are fighting off rejection and are now type F4F4.

http://www.iart7.com/WARBIRDS/gallery6a.html
also gallery6b
Look for the "Missing Man Formation" of Japanese bombers.

i don't have any airplane underside photos uploaded yet, but this weekend you can see them too! i'll try adding a weathering effect very soon.

[wilz]

Arthur it's awesome, really good stuff. I think it's time for the PDC to look at this one also.

Any PDC members willing?

[eretrc]

yea i know this is the wrong time to say this but if u want a personalised gunsgiht email me or PM me cos i like making em

[iart7]

Wilz and I have a new F4F-4 skin we want to submit.

Since there are no PDF skins for this plane, we think we have a good chance for success.

See it here:
http://www.iart7.com/WARBIRDS/gallery6a.html
more photos on 6b... check back later this week for the final detailed photos.

Be sure to leave comments here.

[=york=]

iart,, you are in the PDC now,, submit it yaself, :)

[=Sav=]

Iart, your skin looks wonderful. I only have one question - what source did you use as reference to the shade of blue? While I am a struggling skinner, I am a long time plastic modeler & a big Pacific Theatre buff. All my references show your color to be a bit on the purple side?

Early -3's were lighter, the Navy then went to a darker blue and eliminated the red center on the US star to eliminate accidental confusion in combat with the Japanese emblem.

Early -3's
http://www.cradleofaviation.org/exhibits/ww2/wildcat/wildcat_flight.jpg
http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop/images/f4f3sm_3.jpg
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/NARG/images/wildcat2.jpg

Later -4's

http://www.modelaces.com/148_scale_model/f4f_wildcat/f4f_wildcat_08.jpg
http://www.eaglestrikeproductions.com/aeromaster/jpg48/ad48167a.jpg


I will scan references and help you in any way possible. Was this a/c based on carriers or land based? Or is it a 'tribute' generic TF-17 skin? My only other consideration ( if it is a carrier a/c ) would be to tone down the gun barrel soot - carrier planes spend most of the time under deck, not baked in the sun - and were quite well maintained as compared with their land based compadres - hence lighter weathering and dirt.

I may have to try a Wildcat too! Your work has inspired me :)

<S>alute!

[e-b-o-]

yep, I'd try something like RGB 111/124/138...

[iart7]

Thanks EBO!!!

The original plane as seen on first pic in gallery6a was sent to me by WILZ and i assumed he had the correct colors. As per your info, i too could not find any reference that was that shade of (purple-ish?)

I did minor color adjustments, but now, thanks to your 111-124-138 match, I can do something more accurate with that plane.

I'll ask WILZ about history. Since this is a -4 and not a -3, I'll ask wilz if the color should be even darker than 111-124-138. But I've seen a light blue -4 with the red-dot-star, in particular like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Tamiya-1-48-Grumman-F4F4-Wildcat-61034_W0QQitemZ280021914744QQihZ018QQcategoryZ1189QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting


EBO, Do you have a RGB for the -4?

THNX again!

[wilz]

The blue color was a subjective choice by me early on. On my FE it appeared to be pretty close, however my video card may be putting out a different color. The only photo I have of the plane is in black and white and it appeared to be much darker than the F4F-3 skins that preceeded it. No worries, if you guys want a change I can live with that.

The F4F-4 skin is based on VF-10's first cruise on the Big "E". While it may not be totally historically correct I believe it's about as good as I can find. Arthur has really done a bang up job helping me on this one. Yes he should be a PDC member if he isn't.

And yes Arthur and I have been talking about toning down the gun residue..........even I (the novice) thinks it's too much.

=sav= I've found the -4 fuse tga works for the -3 pretty well, so you don't have to re-invent the wheel. The wing tga however is completely different. I started a wing tga but got sidetracked and need to catch some tuna before the bite ends.

[e-b-o-]

hmmm, I'm not an expert on the F4F, but if you have a color description and using photoshop (I guess so, since you're on a mac) maybe you're able finding the colors you need in my color plates.

download here: http://www.evil-turkey.de/wb3skins/downloads/Farbfelder.zip

hope this helps, ebo

[Kossu]

About the early F4F (USN) colors. (Till 1942 and may have been still around 1943. These seem to fit with the two tone early camos with the red/white striped rudders.)

M-485 Blue Gray for top surfaces.
Got two sets of RGB for this:
110-140-142
http://www.bucket.pp.fi/USN Blue Gray 2s.jpg

105-128-136.
http://www.bucket.pp.fi/USN Blue Gray 1s.jpg



M-495 Light Gray (or Light Gull Gray) for lower surfaces.
Two for this one too:
174-179-173
http://www.bucket.pp.fi/USN Lt Gull Gray 2s.jpg

169-173-161
http://www.bucket.pp.fi/USN Lt Gull Gray 1s.jpg

From these, take what ever looks best/closest in game. Both sets might still need some lightening though. Depends... I'd prolly start with the lighter set (110-140-142 & 174-179-173) ;)

Hope this helps,

Kossu

[wilz]

e-b-o downloaded your files and Paint Shop won't open them. Used Gimp and they all pretty much look the same, just from lines running from left to right. No help here.

[=Sav=]

The info provided by scale model companies ( like computer game companies ) is often inaccurate but 'close enough for government work' - i.e it looks close enough for most.

I have that Tamiya kit, they market is as a -4, but then advertise it in the colorful marking of a historic -3 :) I have that kit with markings for Butch OHare famous 'save the carrier' sortie, which was a -3

Main cosmetic differences between the 2 marks are -
All -4' s were equipped with folding wings, all -3s did not.
-4s also had 6/50s...while the -3 had 4/50s. All -3s were built by Grumman ( right here in my home area ) while -4s were produced by Grummman & also General Motors.

So, if ya model the folding wing panel lines, it should have 6 gun ports and be a -4.

Hope this helps some,

[wilz]

=Sav= it's a -4, with 6 50's (one set offset) and the markings on the wing for folding. I believe the color is the only thing under scrutinity at this point and I believe when the "E" left port the -4's were wearing a darker blue color than others. However I don't have a color photo to verifly this. So, as I said above I'll go with just about anything the PDC wants.

I'll leave it up to Arthur for the final color. I just want it in the game:)

[iart7]

thanks you guys, i got more flour (i mean help) than a wet chicken at KFC.

i'm here going through my box of colors and ... really ...

i only wanted the Crayola color name.

http://www.iart7.com/WARBIRDS/gallery6c.html

[eretrc]

KoOl that looks nice I hope u and wilz make a f4u-4 skin soon



PS: KFC is horrible in U.K

[e-b-o-]

oups, sry Wilz, the color charts are photoshop only. They don't work with other programms.

[kidcan]

Is there not and F4f -3 or F4F-4 or FM-2 template? I am currious to how yer doing it...or did you explain and I missed it? anyhow I would love to get to a Wildcat but thi Hurricane is alot more work then expected but every minute worth it:) awesome job

[wilz]

e-b-o is there anyway you could change the file to something that might be readable by another program. Something like tga, jpg, gif?

Kidcan I couldn't find a template for the F4F series (haven't looked for a FM2 but it probably doesn't exist either). I started with a numbered grid and used that as a skin offline, then just started adding stuff and moving it around until it started to fall into place. It's sort of hit and miss to start with. But once you have an idea where things are you basically end up making your own template. Iart7 turned me onto the labeled grid idea.

[e-b-o-]

not really, because these color tables are no images, they're saved colors in photoshop itself.
a lot of these colors (but not all...) you'll find on simmerspaintshop.com, but unfortunately it's down atm because of a server crash :(

[kidcan]

so you captured imaged of the sides and top and bottom and then did a number grid at a certin scale...oh dear gawwd that's harking back to college days..glad somone remeber that trick...I'm sure getting aline drawing and gridding to would work but I assume both grids woul have to be the same scale or a scale that can match, after reduction, or enlargement the same scale..grid size suggestions?

[iart7]

It is not as hard as you say. You just have to be willing to give up sleeping at night. Grid numbers tend to get burned onto your eyeballs. I just found the location of the tail wheel, now if the cockpit frame will just let me have a peek.

It doesn't have to be a numbered grid, it could be different splotches of color, a portrait of Mona Lisa, anything. Then fly it around and see where everything is located.

If you want, I can send you the tga files and you won't have to start from scratch. The Rivet and Panel lines are not done in a layer, sorry. And you have to agree to use our handsome pilot in your skin. :o

Which version of F4F do you want to paint? I'm sure you will do a great job. PS: do you have a web page to show off your skin work?